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Topic: Sago Mine, West Virginia |
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Joyce |
Posted: 04-Jan-06 17:44 |
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Oh, can't you hear that pretty little bird
singing with all his heart and soul?
He has got a blood red spot on his wing
and all the rest of him's black as coal.
Oh, of all the colors I ever did see
red and black are the ones I dread
For when a man spills blood on the coal
they carry him down from the coal mines dead.
Fly away you red winged bird
leave behind the miner's wife
She'll dream about you all her days
she'll dream about you all her life
Oh, can't you hear that pretty little bird
singing with all his heart and soul?
He has got a blood red spot on his wing
and all the rest of him's black as coal.
Billy Edd Wheeler
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John Lesko |
Posted: 05-Jan-06 13:46 |
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This post brings to mind the late Patrick Flood.
Patrick was my maternal grandfather who worked in the "pits" in Scotland (imigrating from Ireland) from whence he moved up to mine management in the fields of Central Illinois in the late 1890s and early 1900s.
My mother had a picture of him, taken from the back, at the cataclysmic Cherry Mine Disaster. A brother of his, lost his life assisting in the rescue effort at that event.
"Paddy" Flood was a close friend of Teddy Roosevelt, and according to my mother, he encountered the great man on the streets of his home town of Spring Valley, Illinois once. Teddy hailed him, "How the hell are ya Paddy?" to which he replied, "Never better, Ya APA sonofabitch!" If you were any kind of a sonofabitch, my grandfather thought very highly of you. Kind of like getting a conteptuous snarl from Paddy Kavanaugh. For those not familiar with "APA" it stands for "Against Papal Authority".
A cousin of Paddy Flood's, Thomas Mitchell, was a key figure in the United Mine Workers of his day.
Though I myself never set foot inside a coal mine, I treasure my family's history, and take personal pride in the fact that Paddy and his son Tom worked the mines of north central Illinois.
Having read a history of the Cherry Mine Disaster, I know the heart rending sence of loss events like that can produce.
My prayers are with the survivors of the West Virginia tragedy. I hold other sentiments for the dumb bastards who disseminated that "misinformation". God pity those individuals and grant some snese of sollace and comfort to the Sago suvivors. |
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tony |
Posted: 06-Jan-06 14:18 |
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billy ed wheeler--quite awriter- could condense a whole life time into a few lines with jam packed emotion-sort of a e mc call isnt he?-coal tatoo(also (comeing of the roads) was just as good (all his stuff was great(i thought was better if i may say) wasnt it joyce? bew wrote- u no where its at joyce im tinkn to myself--tony |
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Johnnyboy |
Posted: 06-Jan-06 18:49 |
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You're right on target, Tony. "The Coming of the Road" was the first song which sprang to mind on seeing Wheeler's name above. In Ireland, this song was recorded, as far as I know by two balladeers: The Tinkers and Paddy Reilly. It's one of those songs, lyricwise, that would make you stop and think.
Heave away,
Johnnyboy
[Edited by Johnnyboy on 06-Jan-06 19:52] |
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GregoryP |
Posted: 07-Jan-06 05:58 |
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John,
this surely is a tragedy for everyone involved. Misinformation to blame....again. We have been following the release of info here and it is disturbing that things could go so wrong. My daughters and I will include a special prayer at Mass tomorrow morning for the victims of this disaster.
My family also moved from Ireland to Scotland in the mines and lived in Shotz from memory (I hope I spelt it right) and then on to Australia. My Grandmother would not let dad start in the mines and the railway tradition began.
We in Ipswich have had our tragedies in the mines as well. The worst of which was the explosion at Box Flat in 1972. 17 men died that July and are forever entombed in the mine. A memorial has been built and the miners have never been forgotten. I know some of the families and the memories are strong.
God Bless you all for the New Year and I pray for a more positive and fruitful year all round.
Cheers |
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tony |
Posted: 07-Jan-06 10:14 |
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yes -john-well im on the go the cars n the driveway warming -but we will (hopefully everyone) will elaborate on the mineing songs especially from erie n welshlands n or all over the world- , there was a tv show yrs ago with host oscar brand the sea ,farm,mine. raikroads, i cant find the tape ---thatsong was on theier i believe----also the clancys/l killian were doing the sea version singing down bty the waves n the backgrond-- h ground n my shoals of her... well talk somemor j ihope later-this is nice joyce put this about n u n g n lask replyn -got to go sorry---keep thiese minein ng songs in mind -t |
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John Lesko |
Posted: 07-Jan-06 12:37 |
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Tony,
A song, not about mining, so much as miners comes to mind.
In the year 1889 in a towm called Mauch Chunk PA, now known as Brett Hart. Three men were hanged on a day known as Bloody Tuesday. That hanging inspired a song that I SO wish that the Clancys had done with just about anybody they worked with. It was simply called, "The Sons Of Molly Maguire". I collected it from a group that was called The Raparees.
"When the winter wind blow wild at night
From the breakers, melancholy.
If you stand in the dark with your ear to the wind
You can hear the sons of Molly.
Deep in the dark of the old wind shaft
You can smell the smoke and fire.
From the whispered moans in the mine below,
It's the ghost of Molly Maguire." |
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Joyce |
Posted: 07-Jan-06 13:49 |
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Tony, you mentioned Ewan MacColl before which put me in mind of the song Ballad of Springhill (refers to three separate Canadian mining disasters which occurred in, 1891, 1956, and 1958 in different mines within the Springhill coal field, in close proximity to the town of Springhill in Cumberland County Nova, Scotia)
Here are some other songs of mining and mine disasters I thought of :
The Avondale Mine Disaster
(Plymouth, Luzerne Co., Pa. 6 Sept 1869)
Black Lung
Blackleg Miner
The Blantyre Explosion
(occurred at Messrs. Dixon's Colliery, High Blantyre, near Glasgow on October 22nd, 1877)
The Coal Miner’s Child
The Coal Owner and the Pitman’s Wife
Dark as a Dungeon
Down, Down, Down
Down In a Coal Mine
The Dreary Black Hills
The Hard-Working Miner
Just from Dawson
Oh, My Liver and My Lungs
Poor Miner’s Farewell
Joyce |
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tony |
Posted: 07-Jan-06 19:26 |
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hi again-- so least not we forget the clancys singn 'school days over' (probably never over for cls & makem haven to learn all those poems n songs they gave us----lets see now ---mineing - well theres a hundred thousand songs an stories there for sure -well they had this show yrs ago clancys did the sea version -a segament each week on the ,the farm ,railroads an mineing --thinkn on it now the mineing ver was in wheeling not far from this mine site your talkin about ---yea the billy wheeler -i never seen too much of an album from him in the stores maybe the big wigs thought he was too controversal for every day listen -although vangurd an verve were issueing heavy hitters ----though the clancys always kept it light didnt they in their music mostly describeing hardships of nature an the elements rather than the labor -union thing (although mac alpines fusselers stept in i can think of thiis moment )--most of the groups kept it light like the kingstons n the clancys who were th e most popular-- oh the kingstons did - rev mr black- n desert pete -which were wheeler songs- n put them n the peoples ears wherre othere wise might not of been so wide range pop ular songs, they were very good songs also ithought maybe u did also?--- the clancys did have a wonderful aquiesence to war songs though with out ruffeling too many feathers-so ne how - i could somewhat under stand the plight of the miners ,all the disaters the strife here in penn. ,kentucky , n west v er -an so on -you know with the mollys n the pinkertons etc --is nt more explicit in the movies-when we were on strike on the rr - mellons talking about how they have to cut wages etc n benifits etec. then he goes out n buys the painting "the blue boy" for 7 million dollars(n who credits(produces) my all time favorite folk singers the clancy an makem show on public tv the mellon foundation -drive to me drink this life im liveinhg an led ha) --- so those songs really published a visulation of the -tribulations of the working man didnt they? now the dublinerrs they been sign more labor based songs weret they, that came out of the welsh land miners pen d by mac call--well looking back its history -certainly needed to be addressed to , i guess song was the way n books n film n stage--like the molly mc giures staring shawn connerly etc--- what am i saying here ne way these keys im loseing my thoughts----these mine songs you know p-at clancy( i use to like that a bout pats songs an style like he wasnt afraid of nothn in life like rosin the bow etc.) had a way with em im mean in a great way nobody else did better with these minor chords like n " a jug of this"-well these mine song the re in minor chords most of them -oh springhill mineing didaster -i know a fellow who work in that t mine- i visited there yrs ago cause of that song--- what are they called dirges?u no these am ,dm em, songs u know like its raining out side all the time--all all oh first wasnt that song green rolln hills of west virginia a tremedous song - sad though-- ah this ewan mc hes somethn though i remember -i ddont no why i took the job just after high school work ing at the catholic cemetary for a 1/2 a yr- an would u know e mac has this song i use to sing to myselfabout the dublin gravediggers strike(the grave diggers song(dublin whwere my folks come from)for another holiday around 1965 this strike ' oh come all ye grave diggers in erins green isle -put down the spades,boys, and rest for awhile -sit down on ahead stone and listen awhile ,while i ll tell you the wrongs done in this cemetary-with me turin me ya etc.--thanks joyce for lettn me reminece hadnt these thoughts in years---ps other mineing songs-the miners wife , the colliers song --oh theres that new great ) minne ing song by the dubliners "im just a working man" oh 1 more item- there was a group called the molly mcgures came singing aroud here for a couple of yrs sang a lot o f mine music to numerous to mention here -i got there album an u coud contribute a doanation to the families of disaters back in the 6os- well it certainly is a dangerous occupation -an we would haul a lot of coal on the railroad yrs ago- i always wanted to get some "turf"from ireland till this day i hope to get some when i go over-- well im sure we all whish the best for the miners families an all miners --tony |
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Johnnyboy |
Posted: 07-Jan-06 19:33 |
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Ah, opening a can of worms there alright. John Lesko, I know the song you mentioned and have an LP by the Irish Raparees, whereon it appears. Over here, it was a small hit by a northern group, the Paddywagon in 1972, who earlier that year scored a top 5 charter with the song, "Sunday Bloody Sunday", (in lovely Derry town) after events of a civilian march.
Of course, you would associate mining with Welsh valleys in particular, and the song, "Gresford Disaster", commemorates an horrific explosion of 1934, the lyrics of which are:
"You've heard of the Gresford disaster,
A terrible price that was paid;
Two hundred and sixty-two colliers were lost
And three of the rescue brigade.
It occurred in the month of September,
At two in the morning that pit
was wracked by a violent explosion,
In the coal face where the gas lay so thick.
A short while before the explosion,
The shot-firer Tomlinson cried:
If you fire that shot, we'll be all blown to hell,
And no-one can say that he lied.
The firemen's reports are all missing,
The records of forty-two days;
The colliery manager had them destroyed,
To cover his criminal ways.
Down there in the dark they are lying,
They died for nine shillings a day;
They've worked this shift, and it's now they must stay
In the darkness, until judgement day.
Well, the lord mayor has launched his collection,
To help the poor children and wives;
The owners have sent some white lilies, dear God,
To pay for the poor miners' wives.
Farewell to our wives and our children,
Farewell to our comrades as well,
Don't send your sons down the dark dreary mines,
They'll be damned like the sinners in hell.
They'll be damned like the sinners in hell."
The best recording I've heard of that song was done by a short-lived welsh group, the Hennessys, who took up residence in Ireland for a year circa 1969. One of their number, Frank Hennessy, subsequently became a radio host on BBC Wales and was also a songwriter of some repute. One of his compositions, "Farewell To the Rhonda", put into perspective what his fellow-Welshman, folksinger Max Boyce, once told me was "a love-hate relationship" most people there had with the mining tradition.
Ewan MacColl also recorded "Gresford" and penned a few mining songs himself, among them "Schooldays Over". "Down In the Mines", which Joyce referred to above, was recorded here by the Wolfe Tones on their first album in 1965.
Heave away,
Johnnyboy
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John McLaughlin |
Posted: 07-Jan-06 23:36 |
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The Molly McGuires were hanged in Bloomsburg, PA, not in Mauch Chunk (renamed Jim Thorpe, to cash in on the fame of the American Indian hero of the Olypmics, early in the 20th century). The reason I happen to know this is that one of my wife's relatives, a great-uncle or some such, was the sheriff who hanged them, Bloomsburg being the county seat where they were tried (altho their activities were carried on a bit further east, in the coal mines around Hazleton - I guess the trial was moved to try to ensure fairness by a change in venue). Dark period in Pennsylvania history. |
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glasgowgirl |
Posted: 08-Jan-06 01:20 |
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Mining disasters are so always horrific - and may not always take place underground. A few years before I came to Canada, I was dating someone in the Merchant Navy who came from Wales (Mumbles) . He and a couple of mates had just gone home on leave, and I was expecting a call from him the next evening - and the first thing I heard him say was, "Taffy was at Aberfan - his home was beside the school - he was really 'out of it' when he got home last night and told his parents he'd talk to them in the morning..." I don't think I'll ever forget that call or how I felt at the time. It's nearly 40 years (yikes!)and I still get that same feeling every time I hear of mining tragedies.
Gregory, it's spelled "Shotts" and it still exists! I've often gone past it on my way to St Andrews from Glasgow.
cheers, glwgirl |
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Johnnyboy |
Posted: 08-Jan-06 09:25 |
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The worst in modern times, Aberfan was.
I don't want to take over this topic dishing out lyrics, but there's one song by the aforementioned Max Boyce, "Duw It's Hard" you'd find by googling, which seems to put the whole thing in a nutshell in relation to Welsh valley mining closures in the late 1960's/early 70's. (Duw is Welsh for God.) So, if you want the words, it should come up on the first link of Mr. Google, but better still if you could hear the song somehow, for as is said in the note following, Max spent eight years working underground, so knows what he's talking about. Incidentally, he also recorded a fine version of "Go Lassie Go".
Heave away,
Johnnyboy
[Edited by Johnnyboy on 08-Jan-06 10:29] |
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tony |
Posted: 08-Jan-06 13:40 |
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dont be shy about it john if i can say that cause i was collecting n still mine ing songs for my library thru the years---n -how could i forget these two songs when i reply d above-they were enormously popular -tenn. ernie fords 16 tons , n j deans 'big john'he stood 6ft6 n his wieght(d) 245- these were big hits in thr 50 n 60s(yes an let me repeat glasgo-g remark "yikes" 50 yrs ago(when i was a teenager ha yikes is right)----heres a twist i once heard it said if u want to stay n look young (play)listen to the music that you listend too when you were young or from earlier times-who knows-well your probably a young man as it is you my want to tell the older ones n your crowd --tony |
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glasgowgirl |
Posted: 08-Jan-06 18:27 |
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Like Johnnyboy, I don't want to take over on lyrics, etc., but I have a question. Some time back in the 70s (modern times?) I was channel hopping and I caught the tail end of a musical/opera on Aberfan. The ending was individual children standing alone on different hillsides singing the most haunting melody. I'd really love to know if anyone has any info on this.
cheers,
glwgirl |
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John McLaughlin |
Posted: 08-Jan-06 20:47 |
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Here you are:
"Aberfan, commissioned for CBC television, won the Salzburg TV Opera Prize in 1977. The award citation commended 'its simplicity of means, both in production and musical composition. It was emotionally intense and written with great impact'. It also won an ACTRA award for best television program in 1978, the Prix Anik, and a citation as best serious music program from the Canadian Music Council. This opera, inspired by the Welsh disaster in which a slag-heap buried school-children alive, has been seen in 22 countries."
I just googled "Aberfan opera," and there it was. |
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John McLaughlin |
Posted: 09-Jan-06 10:49 |
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Oh, sorry. It's by Canadian composer Raymond Parnell, written 1976. |
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glasgowgirl |
Posted: 09-Jan-06 20:40 |
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Many thanx for the info., John. I'll google it after I sign off here - it's really appreciated.
cheers,
glwgirl |
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glasgowgirl |
Posted: 09-Jan-06 20:44 |
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Many thanx for the info., John - greatly appreciated - now I know I wasn't hallucinating at the time!
cheers,
glwgirl |
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John Lesko |
Posted: 10-Jan-06 12:15 |
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John,
My Mauch Chunk source was the late Joseph Mc Grath, who informed his audience that "Bloody Tuesday" was a multi site event during which 13 people had a date with the rope.
The chorus of the song says it all,
"But I will die with my head held high,
For I fought for the men below.
For the men who stayed in the sweat and died,
Down it that black, hell hole." |
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Johnnyboy |
Posted: 10-Jan-06 19:23 |
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John Lesko, the song lyrics of this can be found on theballadeers.com, in the s section, under the title "Sons of Molly". It is credited to one Chuck Rogers.
Heave away,
Johnnyboy
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John McLaughlin |
Posted: 10-Jan-06 20:01 |
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My apologies, John. Mauch Chunk only changed its name in the wake of Jim Thorpe's triumphs at the Olypmics, held in I believe 1912; in any case, he died there in 1953 and they changed their name in 1954, some say to honor him, some say to cash in. In any case, back in the time of the Molly Maguires, it was definitely still Mauch Chunk, and I was wrong. I was reading an overwrought magazine article written in the early 1890's that took the opposite side to the song, caling the Molly Maguires bloody assassins and so on. Just show you how attitudes change, if not town names as quickly. My apologies, in any event. |
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John Lesko |
Posted: 11-Jan-06 13:35 |
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Along the theme of "bloody assassins",
long ago n far away I used to work for a man named Hunter P. Davidson. Hunter used to suffer from glaucoma in one eye, and an egomania that was undeniable. Once, one of my co workers was consoling another co worker over Hunter's lifting of the fellow's idea and christening it his own.
Both Hunter and the gentleman in question wore glasses, and Jim, the man offering the verbal consolation had a sense of humor that could floor a charging rhino. Jim said,
"After all, Rich, ya gotta look at it this way, two heads are better than one, Hell, Three eyes are better than two. Sorta like 'Dr. Cyclops vs Trizilla'."
Pardon me, I digress.
But Hunter and I were discussing Pennsylvania related matters and Hunter brought up the Molly Maguires. I responded most favorably to the mention, while he blanched with revulsion and cautioned me as to keep my sentiments about that organization to myself.
This was in 1975!
I still sing that song with pride. |
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Johnnyboy |
Posted: 12-Jan-06 03:29 |
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According to the linernotes of the Irish Balladeers' (not Raparees as I mistakenly posted earlier), "Sons of Moly", the three men mentioned in that song, Mickey Doyle, Edward Kelly and Alex Campbell, along with six others were hanged on Thursday, June 21, 1877. For some years thereafter, this event was known as Black Thursday.
The LP in question was released in 1968 on the Avoca label; the group comprised of three Rogers brothers, Chuck, Bob and John, their brother-in-law, Ted Andrews and helping them along for the recording was their father, Charles snr. (accordion) and Eddie Lennihan, a musician from their locale, Scranton, Penn. All the songs on the album had a mining theme and you'd really be doing well to track down a copy. It doesn't seem to have been reissued on silverdisc, nor does any of the Avoca catalogue, to my knowledge.
By googling the artists, album and label, I was brought along to a very interesting discussion about the Molly Maguires on Mudcat cafe, worth a visit if you have an hour or so to spare.
Heave away,
Johnnyboy
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tony |
Posted: 14-Jan-06 17:27 |
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well friends(johnnyb n jl) leave it to me get in the story with out checking my albums; here i am thinkn the group was called the molly mcguires all along since the 60s -till i see your reply of names n the band --there heresthe correction "the irish balladeers" oh well yes i have 2 of there oroignal albums -the molly maguires(mineing songs)an the other is drinking songs with about 8 clancys n some others i never heard before like flanagan an mcgaff etc. ---j & j if you would like to listen to them on tape for refrence ill send em too you-actually u now im thinkn johnny u can have the albums if u want at no cost -your friend nirish music -tony
[Edited by tony on 14-Jan-06 18:32] |
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Johnnyboy |
Posted: 14-Jan-06 18:47 |
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Tony, I am most humbled by your very kind offer. The album I've got contains numbers like Sons of Milly, Black-legged Miner, Dad's Dinner Pail, Pat Dolan, Pat Mulligan's Wake, etc. If yours is different, my address is pretty much in my profile but if you drop me an eline, I'll fill in the rest and the Drinking Songs LP should be good too, if Sons of Molly is anything to go by. Of course, I'l send some goodies your way in exchange. Many thanks my friend.
Heave away,
Johnnyboy |
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kierkl |
Posted: 29-Jan-06 19:13 |
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Does anyone have any info on a group called "The Raparees". I see them mentioned here. I wonder if it is the two people we knew. They were Joe and Joan Mcgrath. My wife and I were very good friends in KC,Mo with them in 1980's. They played at all the Irish venues there. They were popular in Chicago before going to KC. They had been on the same bill with LC and TM somewhere. I think Canada at the Irish part of the Expo there.I have heard that Joe has died and Joan has returned to Canada (or Ireland). Did they ever make any tapes or LPs? We would love to locate a copy. All we have are non-professionally recorded tapes of their club act.I posted a similar message with a bit more info as a topic "The Raparees". We really would appreciate any info on these our old and dear friends. Joe wrote (or said he did) a wonderful song called "Derry's Black Day" after Bloody Sunday. And one called "British Fair Play". I have them both on this non professional tape. |
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John Lesko |
Posted: 31-Jan-06 12:30 |
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Kierkl,
Holy mother of God in heaven! Not only I, but Robbie O'Connell has memories of them!
Joe & Joan Mc Grath were two of the truest and most dedicated Irish Folk Singers the anyone could ever hope to meet. Joe died August 15, 1986 and the world lost a most resonant voice for tradional music.
I brought back memories of them on the cruise with my MP3 player for Robbie when I regaled him with the version of "The Sons Of Molly Maguire" that I had on it.
There were times when Joe could be most caustic and agumenative. At those times he'd launch into a diatribe that would have toasted the cinders off the walls of hell, and wind up with this rejoiner,
"Well. f--k you! 'N it ye got cousins in California, f--k them too!"
That line is very precious to about six or seven peolpe around the Chicago area.
See my profile and and email me. We'll talk more! |
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